Comments on: The Philosophy of Deliverance http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/10/06/the-philosophy-of-deliverance/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:48:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Christof http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/10/06/the-philosophy-of-deliverance/comment-page-1/#comment-54216 Christof Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:50:44 +0000 http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/10/06/the-philosophy-of-deliverance/#comment-54216 This all sounds great but as eleddy said portlets are (what I know of it) problematic for several things. From a frontend view putting together different HTML seems to work but how do you manage different CSS files which e.g. overwrite the body's background-color or the link color etc? How do you work with JSlibs when one app wants pluginXv1.0 and the other uses pluginXv2.0 which has a different API? HTML as a common document language sounds fine but in modern web development HTML which I am sure you are aware of cannot be dealt with in isolation (CSS, JS, Flash, AJAX...) and so IMHO is simply not enough. My first thought was "is the Deliverance view not too simplistic?" (no assault meant). I was working on a project which uses a custom XML dialect (could also be a slightly modified XHTML dialect) as a base which all combined applications use and which is in the end transformed via XSLT to the final HTML for a common presentation. Of course a single application has not the full power of its own presentation but when looking at the beforementioned problems this is almost impossible without chaos... I still cannot think of an ideal solution. XML > XSLT > HTML is not ideal either, performance for an additional transformation can be an issue, also apps might get nervous not being able to control their own presentation fully. I guess presentation also is a question of - who controls it? The individual app, a company with a CI which just "uses/shows" the apps etc. But I am eager to hear how Deliverance will deal with the above mentioned problems and progress further. Hope you do more posts about it. (sorry for my sometimes strange english, hope I made myself clear (enough ;)) This all sounds great but as eleddy said portlets are (what I know of it) problematic for several things.

From a frontend view putting together different HTML seems to work but how do you manage different CSS files which e.g. overwrite the body’s background-color or the link color etc? How do you work with JSlibs when one app wants pluginXv1.0 and the other uses pluginXv2.0 which has a different API?

HTML as a common document language sounds fine but in modern web development HTML which I am sure you are aware of cannot be dealt with in isolation (CSS, JS, Flash, AJAX…) and so IMHO is simply not enough. My first thought was “is the Deliverance view not too simplistic?” (no assault meant).

I was working on a project which uses a custom XML dialect (could also be a slightly modified XHTML dialect) as a base which all combined applications use and which is in the end transformed via XSLT to the final HTML for a common presentation. Of course a single application has not the full power of its own presentation but when looking at the beforementioned problems this is almost impossible without chaos…

I still cannot think of an ideal solution. XML > XSLT > HTML is not ideal either, performance for an additional transformation can be an issue, also apps might get nervous not being able to control their own presentation fully. I guess presentation also is a question of - who controls it? The individual app, a company with a CI which just “uses/shows” the apps etc.

But I am eager to hear how Deliverance will deal with the above mentioned problems and progress further. Hope you do more posts about it.

(sorry for my sometimes strange english, hope I made myself clear (enough ;))

]]> By: eleddy http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/10/06/the-philosophy-of-deliverance/comment-page-1/#comment-53929 eleddy Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:11:20 +0000 http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/10/06/the-philosophy-of-deliverance/#comment-53929 transclusion sounds a lot like what was/is trying to be accomplished by jsr 168/268 portlets. In my unfortunate past experiences this worked "ok" until the wonderful world of ajax came and clobbered namespaces, callbacks, etc... will be interested to see if deliverance will be affected similarly. can't wait to try it out :) transclusion sounds a lot like what was/is trying to be accomplished by jsr 168/268 portlets. In my unfortunate past experiences this worked “ok” until the wonderful world of ajax came and clobbered namespaces, callbacks, etc… will be interested to see if deliverance will be affected similarly. can’t wait to try it out :)

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