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	<title>Comments on: Choosing a License</title>
	<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ToddB</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17214</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 15:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17214</guid>
		<description>A must read if considering GPL or LGPL

"There are many different reasons for contributing to open-source software, and these reasons should be respected to the largest extend possible." -From Article linked below

[Link](http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2001/12/12/transition.html?page=1)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A must read if considering GPL or LGPL</p>

<p>&#8220;There are many different reasons for contributing to open-source software, and these reasons should be respected to the largest extend possible.&#8221; -From Article linked below</p>

<p><a href="http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2001/12/12/transition.html?page=1">Link</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Crossland</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17210</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Crossland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17210</guid>
		<description>You didn't mention the Affero GPL, now an FSF license released shortly after GPLv3, which deals with the "Software As A Service" issue. I hope you'll consider it and blog your thoughts :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You didn&#8217;t mention the Affero GPL, now an FSF license released shortly after GPLv3, which deals with the &#8220;Software As A Service&#8221; issue. I hope you&#8217;ll consider it and blog your thoughts :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17198</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17198</guid>
		<description>Par: I think it's important to think about what a realistic outcome will be.  If you want to build a business you should think about what kind of business you are building.  If it's providing a desktop application, then I don't know... but that's not a very common business to go into these days.  If it's providing a web-based application, then a lot of the value you provide will be in terms of hosting, the reliability of your service, customer service, etc.  Especially if you are providing a niche service, will the code itself be of much value to your customers?  You probably don't have to worry about another person like yourself coming along and using your code to take your business.  I haven't really seen that happen.  The primary competition you'll have is from your customer's IT people.  The GPL doesn't really matter in that situation.

If you are thinking about providing consulting, then the primary way to build your business with software is to get the software popular.  If the software is popular and respected, you might be able to get consulting gigs to extend it, or more likely it will be a way of building business associations and justifying a higher rate.  You can also basically charge for "solutions", where you charge based on the value of the work to the customer, not on the amount of work you put in.  This is kind of what licensing fees are meant to do, but the customer probably doesn't care about that.  So long as you are charging a competitive rate and providing good value, the justification for your rate is less important.  Consulting companies around Plone tend to work like this.  It's up to you to invest in your own infrastructure -- and it's an investment, as it'll be a resource sink to start, and might pay off later if your software infrastructure really does help you do development.

There's a small number of companies that make monkey with extensible GPL software where they sell a proprietary-compatible license.  It never seems to work all that well, and for many domains I don't see how it would work at all.

So... those are my general thoughts.  I don't think licensing factors in that much.

As to how I do it, I have the fortune to work for a non-profit, [The Open Planning Project](http://topp.openplans.org), who has as part of its mission the production of open source software.  Before that I did most of my work basically as a hobbyist, without any particular mind to making it profitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Par: I think it&#8217;s important to think about what a realistic outcome will be.  If you want to build a business you should think about what kind of business you are building.  If it&#8217;s providing a desktop application, then I don&#8217;t know&#8230; but that&#8217;s not a very common business to go into these days.  If it&#8217;s providing a web-based application, then a lot of the value you provide will be in terms of hosting, the reliability of your service, customer service, etc.  Especially if you are providing a niche service, will the code itself be of much value to your customers?  You probably don&#8217;t have to worry about another person like yourself coming along and using your code to take your business.  I haven&#8217;t really seen that happen.  The primary competition you&#8217;ll have is from your customer&#8217;s IT people.  The GPL doesn&#8217;t really matter in that situation.</p>

<p>If you are thinking about providing consulting, then the primary way to build your business with software is to get the software popular.  If the software is popular and respected, you might be able to get consulting gigs to extend it, or more likely it will be a way of building business associations and justifying a higher rate.  You can also basically charge for &#8220;solutions&#8221;, where you charge based on the value of the work to the customer, not on the amount of work you put in.  This is kind of what licensing fees are meant to do, but the customer probably doesn&#8217;t care about that.  So long as you are charging a competitive rate and providing good value, the justification for your rate is less important.  Consulting companies around Plone tend to work like this.  It&#8217;s up to you to invest in your own infrastructure &#8212; and it&#8217;s an investment, as it&#8217;ll be a resource sink to start, and might pay off later if your software infrastructure really does help you do development.</p>

<p>There&#8217;s a small number of companies that make monkey with extensible GPL software where they sell a proprietary-compatible license.  It never seems to work all that well, and for many domains I don&#8217;t see how it would work at all.</p>

<p>So&#8230; those are my general thoughts.  I don&#8217;t think licensing factors in that much.</p>

<p>As to how I do it, I have the fortune to work for a non-profit, <a href="http://topp.openplans.org">The Open Planning Project</a>, who has as part of its mission the production of open source software.  Before that I did most of my work basically as a hobbyist, without any particular mind to making it profitable.</p>
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		<title>By: Per Enzo</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17183</link>
		<dc:creator>Per Enzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 07:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17183</guid>
		<description>Another issue for choosing a license may be the one of "how can I build a business on my self written applications?" For some of my projects I have chosen to go with "Dual Licensing". That means that I use GPL for a public version and a proprietary license I sell for commercial users. In this case I have the feeling that the GPL protects the code to not be stolen by another person who tries to use my intellectual property for a very similar commercial projects. But on the other hand I have the feeling that with the GPL it is possible for other people to start a new *free* project if they like to and that is alright for me. 

How do you think about these things? Sorry for the indiscreet question, but Ian how do you finance the work on your wonderful software projects?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another issue for choosing a license may be the one of &#8220;how can I build a business on my self written applications?&#8221; For some of my projects I have chosen to go with &#8220;Dual Licensing&#8221;. That means that I use GPL for a public version and a proprietary license I sell for commercial users. In this case I have the feeling that the GPL protects the code to not be stolen by another person who tries to use my intellectual property for a very similar commercial projects. But on the other hand I have the feeling that with the GPL it is possible for other people to start a new <em>free</em> project if they like to and that is alright for me. </p>

<p>How do you think about these things? Sorry for the indiscreet question, but Ian how do you finance the work on your wonderful software projects?</p>
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		<title>By: Tobu</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17174</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17174</guid>
		<description>[Ian#6](#comment-17132): Webkit can be considered an LGPL success story.

At first the only communication from Apple after they forked KHTML was in the form of tarball dumps.
This was mostly ignored for a while, then (sometime around Acid2) the bad blood got aired in the KDE community and gained a bit of [blog publicity](http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1049).

After some discussion Apple was sort of willing to open up its bug tracker, then they took the plunge and today's webkit seems an [open](http://www.atoker.com/blog/2008/02/26/developing-hybrid-web-gtk-applications/) and [healthy](http://blogs.gnome.org/epiphany/2008/04/01/the-future-of-epiphany/) project.

While the LGPL wasn't enough to get this result, it certainly wouldn't have happened without it, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-17132">Ian#6</a>: Webkit can be considered an LGPL success story.</p>

<p>At first the only communication from Apple after they forked KHTML was in the form of tarball dumps.
This was mostly ignored for a while, then (sometime around Acid2) the bad blood got aired in the KDE community and gained a bit of <a href="http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1049">blog publicity</a>.</p>

<p>After some discussion Apple was sort of willing to open up its bug tracker, then they took the plunge and today&#8217;s webkit seems an <a href="http://www.atoker.com/blog/2008/02/26/developing-hybrid-web-gtk-applications/">open</a> and <a href="http://blogs.gnome.org/epiphany/2008/04/01/the-future-of-epiphany/">healthy</a> project.</p>

<p>While the LGPL wasn&#8217;t enough to get this result, it certainly wouldn&#8217;t have happened without it, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17165</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 16:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17165</guid>
		<description>betabug: I'm not saying you should just ignore the GPL's requirements.  But in the same way, people shouldn't be so afraid of the GPL.  It's not going to sneak into your code and steal all your secrets.  

As an example, someone expressed concern that maybe a build tool I was working on might be GPL, and then they wouldn't want to use it.  This wasn't based on any rational reason, as there's nothing particularly proprietary about how people use build tools.  And build tools should be open source simply out of respect to the people deploying the software, who might need to debug your code.

If you build a proprietary application with a GPL'd tool, that doesn't extend the GPL to your application, and no one is trying to assert that kind of control over other people's code.  At least no open source developers -- this does come up from time to time in proprietary development, but as I said, if you are looking for someone to distrust it's the proprietary environments that deserve it.  

Another unfounded fear is that a little GPL code will have a viral effect on a proprietary codebase.  This fear is also unfounded.  If you accidentally include some GPL code in some section of your application you'll have the opportunity to just remove it, reimplement it, no one is going to relicense your code without your permission because of that.  I say this not as a lawyer, but because this is what happens in practice.  There simply aren't cases of the GPL being viral like this, except when GPL code forms a substantial portion of the codebase in question.  In all cases GPL licensing issues have been resolved through negotiation, not through court cases.

People make a hard line about the GPL that is totally unjustified, and that's what bothers me.  Mostly I think it's either based on ignorance or it's part of a hidden ideological agenda.  Or it's stupid legal departments that want to assert their importance by being obstructionist.  Well, that and a tendency of programmers to make specious logical arguments about the law, because programmers tend to think that the law is based on logic instead of reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>betabug: I&#8217;m not saying you should just ignore the GPL&#8217;s requirements.  But in the same way, people shouldn&#8217;t be so afraid of the GPL.  It&#8217;s not going to sneak into your code and steal all your secrets.  </p>

<p>As an example, someone expressed concern that maybe a build tool I was working on might be GPL, and then they wouldn&#8217;t want to use it.  This wasn&#8217;t based on any rational reason, as there&#8217;s nothing particularly proprietary about how people use build tools.  And build tools should be open source simply out of respect to the people deploying the software, who might need to debug your code.</p>

<p>If you build a proprietary application with a GPL&#8217;d tool, that doesn&#8217;t extend the GPL to your application, and no one is trying to assert that kind of control over other people&#8217;s code.  At least no open source developers &#8212; this does come up from time to time in proprietary development, but as I said, if you are looking for someone to distrust it&#8217;s the proprietary environments that deserve it.  </p>

<p>Another unfounded fear is that a little GPL code will have a viral effect on a proprietary codebase.  This fear is also unfounded.  If you accidentally include some GPL code in some section of your application you&#8217;ll have the opportunity to just remove it, reimplement it, no one is going to relicense your code without your permission because of that.  I say this not as a lawyer, but because this is what happens in practice.  There simply aren&#8217;t cases of the GPL being viral like this, except when GPL code forms a substantial portion of the codebase in question.  In all cases GPL licensing issues have been resolved through negotiation, not through court cases.</p>

<p>People make a hard line about the GPL that is totally unjustified, and that&#8217;s what bothers me.  Mostly I think it&#8217;s either based on ignorance or it&#8217;s part of a hidden ideological agenda.  Or it&#8217;s stupid legal departments that want to assert their importance by being obstructionist.  Well, that and a tendency of programmers to make specious logical arguments about the law, because programmers tend to think that the law is based on logic instead of reason.</p>
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		<title>By: John-Paul Gignac</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17163</link>
		<dc:creator>John-Paul Gignac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 15:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17163</guid>
		<description>You mentioned that the GPL may become irrelevant because of software-as-a-service.  Be sure to check out the &lt;a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Affero GPL&lt;/a&gt; (AGPL), a copyleft license specifically designed to address that issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mentioned that the GPL may become irrelevant because of software-as-a-service.  Be sure to check out the <a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl.html" rel="nofollow">Affero GPL</a> (AGPL), a copyleft license specifically designed to address that issue.</p>
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		<title>By: ToddB</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17161</link>
		<dc:creator>ToddB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 15:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17161</guid>
		<description>GPL is fine for python programs, the restrictions are pretty much non-existent for a a couple of reasons.
1. Python applications and libraries are generally source code anyways. 
2. Code is evaluated at runtime vs. compiled into a binary.

Making your source available is the norm in python world, and you can freely mix licenses due to the fact that the files are kept separate.

However for C/C++ programs the situation is quite different. If you include headers of any GPL'ed libraries, the preprocessor effectively writes gpl'ed code into the top of your source code. Therefore, you have to license your code as GPL, which is why LGPL exists. My big problem with this is simply, I want to have the choice of my own license with an app and have a big issue with being forced to use someone elses license.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GPL is fine for python programs, the restrictions are pretty much non-existent for a a couple of reasons.
1. Python applications and libraries are generally source code anyways. 
2. Code is evaluated at runtime vs. compiled into a binary.</p>

<p>Making your source available is the norm in python world, and you can freely mix licenses due to the fact that the files are kept separate.</p>

<p>However for C/C++ programs the situation is quite different. If you include headers of any GPL&#8217;ed libraries, the preprocessor effectively writes gpl&#8217;ed code into the top of your source code. Therefore, you have to license your code as GPL, which is why LGPL exists. My big problem with this is simply, I want to have the choice of my own license with an app and have a big issue with being forced to use someone elses license.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Pleşoianu</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17158</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Pleşoianu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 13:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17158</guid>
		<description>I kinda like the spirit of the GPL (including its viral nature - it has a definite purpose), and I applied it to my first few hobby projects. But it's just too long and scary. People don't even read the average EULA, let alone 11 pages (in the case of GPL v2). Besides, my recent projects have been very small, and I think it's ridiculous to have a license text longer than the actual source code.

What to use, then? Well, at 20 lines, the MIT license has much better chances to actually get read and understood by people, and can be easily included in full at the top of every source file. The BSD license has similar qualities - it's a matter of taste as far as I can tell - and for one project I even adopted the [Mu license](http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MuLicense):

&#62; If you are asking what license this software is released under, you are asking the wrong question.

which, I think, makes for a great moral statement, though it's probably worthless as legal protection. Or precisely because of that?

All in all, I'm for a laid back attitude regarding "intellectual property".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kinda like the spirit of the GPL (including its viral nature - it has a definite purpose), and I applied it to my first few hobby projects. But it&#8217;s just too long and scary. People don&#8217;t even read the average EULA, let alone 11 pages (in the case of GPL v2). Besides, my recent projects have been very small, and I think it&#8217;s ridiculous to have a license text longer than the actual source code.</p>

<p>What to use, then? Well, at 20 lines, the MIT license has much better chances to actually get read and understood by people, and can be easily included in full at the top of every source file. The BSD license has similar qualities - it&#8217;s a matter of taste as far as I can tell - and for one project I even adopted the <a href="http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MuLicense">Mu license</a>:</p>

<p>&gt; If you are asking what license this software is released under, you are asking the wrong question.</p>

<p>which, I think, makes for a great moral statement, though it&#8217;s probably worthless as legal protection. Or precisely because of that?</p>

<p>All in all, I&#8217;m for a laid back attitude regarding &#8220;intellectual property&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Yves Moisan</title>
		<link>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17151</link>
		<dc:creator>Yves Moisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 12:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/05/05/choosing-a-license/#comment-17151</guid>
		<description>A few weeks ago, I stumbled across this from the Software Freedom Law center : &lt;a href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;A Legal Issues Primer for Open Source and Free Software Projects&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few weeks ago, I stumbled across this from the Software Freedom Law center : <a href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/foss-primer.html" rel="nofollow">A Legal Issues Primer for Open Source and Free Software Projects</a>.</p>
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